Bevendre

the-chibster:

stirringwind:

feathersandblue:

Nice try, anon.

First of all, the term PoC has its origins in anglo-american usage, but it’s not an internationally acknowledged one. Mostly because international organisations and global institutions simply know better than to divide everything literally into black and white - and because the artificial dichotomy between white and non-white doesn’t do justice to the complexity of racism in large parts of the world. So unless you want the whole world to adopt a term that makes even Hitler’s raciology look like a sophisticated attempt at acknowledging diversity, please stop using it in a global context.

PoC cannot be racist. Prejudiced, but not racist.

That’s a very convenient excuse, wouldn’t you say? 

Unfortunately it’s nonsense. Racism is universal, it doesn’t depend on color of skin. That’s just the most obvious and, in the USA, the most prevalent form.

But, hey, according to your logic, the Holocaust wasn’t motivated by racism, because guess what, Jews were, to the majority, white. They were considered a different race, which had nothing to do with their color of skin and everything to do with their ethnicity and religion. So, good to know that my ancestors weren’t really racist when they burned down synagogues and sent people to Auschwitz.

Clearly racism only happens to PoC.

The invasion of European countries by Germany during WWII also had nothing to do with racism, yay! Russia, which lost roughtly 27 millions of people during the war, will be relieved to hear that all of that had nothing to do with Adolf Hitler’s conviction that the people belonging to the  “Slavic race”, despite being what is largely considered white, were inferior to “Aryans”.

Really, I’m so glad we could clear this up. History, re-written because the USA presented the world with a new definition of racism. Congrats! As a German, I’m fully on board. We were just prejudiced. Maybe the tiniest bit nationalist, but it’s not like that was in any way related to racism. Except, maybe, in Africa, because clearly that was racism, yes?

I’m also glad to hear that the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis isn’t motivated by racism in the least - or is it? Depends, I assume, on whether you define one of these groups as white and the other as non-white. Are the Israelis white? So does that make them the oppressing group, according to your logic? Or are the Palestinians? Funny how it’s that easy to tell the racist guys from the non-racist ones by looking at whose skin is a tad lighter, huh? 

How about a bit more of backward logic while we’re at it?

“My ideology says that there is no such thing as racism against white people.  Ergo, everyone who experiences racism cannot be white.”

The Turkish must also be white then because they were racist toward Armenians (to the point of genocide, just saying.).

But if Turkish people are now white, then they cannot possibly victims of racism themselves, right? As someone living in Germany, with a large Turkish minority, I’m so glad to hear that. Nothing to see here, folks, just a bit of prejudice, obviously.

Oh, and clearly the Hutu in Ruanda were white too when they slaughtered up to a million of Tutsi in the culmination of a racist conflict that had been brewing for decades.

But I’m sure you want to blame colonialism fort that? I mean, clearly it’s not as if these people had any agency when they started slaughtering their neighbours, right?

Srebrenica ring any bells to you? Former Jugoslawia? It’s really hard to tell someone’s color of skin based on their skeleton, but according to your logic, based on the fact that this skeleton belongs to the victim of an internationally acknowledged genocide, they have to have been a PoC.

Really, I’m having fun with your theory, because it leads to such really enlightening statements like that the Irish are PoC, or that Eastern European people are PoC, and sometimes Italian or Spansih people too, depending on who you ask. So much fun to be had with white and PoC, like you wouldn’t believe.

All PoC now?

Funny how someone is labeled as white when you want to point out that they have privilege, and as PoC when you want to explain that they are victims of oppression and racism. Like, people from South America which  was colonialized by white Europeans, who are now considered Latino/Hispanic and therefore PoC within the USA?

Like, this guy:

Is he white? He’s a Spanish football player. The Spanish are usually considered white, right? But as soon as you find out he’s been born in Argentina, that makes him a PoC, yes? That’s Lionel Messi for you, an enigma.

This guy with the slightly doubtful expression:

He’s white, right? Unfortunately, he’s a German late repatriat born in Poland, and let me assure you, there’s plenty of prejudice and systematic racial discrimination happening against people like him in Germany. Miroslav Klose. I think he’s looking that way because he just found out he’s now considered a PoC, something that probably never occurred to him before.

But, again, how convenient for every single PoC living in northern America and Europe. What a great opportunity to claim solidarity with every other marginalized group on this world and blame it all on white supremacy.

Like, this woman, much oppressed, so sad:

Just like these people: 

Or these:

There’s no difference, really.

Guess what? That’s a really fucked-up way to deny the agency and responsibility of PoC in our western society. Because PoC make up half of the USA, but as long as you call it white supremacy and break it all down to a white/non-white dichotomy, the fact that all these PoC are directly benefittting from and contributing to western supremacy can be ignored.

Last time I looked, US American PoC were very much a part of their nation. Unless you want to claim they are not. Unless you want to claim that they are not actually a part of the country they are living in, were born and raised in. Unless you want to claim that they are not actually demanding a long overdue fair share of their country’s wealth and power - only that both wealth and power are a result of yes, supremacy, and they are actually an active part the oppressing group. Global exploitation. Capitalism. Western supremacy, if anything.

But, hey, I’m sure the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, countries severely affected by US military intervention, will be able to tell that all US American PoC are just poor oppressed, powerless creatures - especially Barack Obama, who is really nothing but a brainwashed tortured soul weighed down by racism, it’s not like he’s in a position of power or something. I’m also sure the Chinese will be very grateful that they’re labeled as PoC, meaning that the way they’re oppressing their own ethnical minorities is just prejudiced. I’m also sure Vladimir Putin has white privilege whenever he’s meeting the president of the United States. Unless, of course, you want to call Putin a PoC too.

So glad we had this talk, anon. Now kindly fuck off.

^^^ THIS! By all means use the “White” and “PoC” dichotomy if you’re talking about the United States’ power relations. But DO NOT transplant it to other settings carelessly, because the definition of “white” changes even in other countries with “white” populations. For example, Brazil- like almost everybody has some African and Native American ancestry in addition to European ancestors. Therefore, some people who WOULDN’T be considered “White” in the US would be in Brazil and therefore, be in a position of power.

This is why I am against using the honestly, very Americanised terms “PoC” and “white” as universals- without either a) Making clear what context is spoken in (i.e you SHOULD define who is considered “White” in that particular context  if you are talking about a country outside the US) b) Or instead, adopting the local terms used in each countries to denote their racial classification (i.e Brazil “pardo”, Mexico “mestizo, indigena” etc). This is because many people here reading such terms take it for granted “white” and  ”PoC” is the American definition of it. 

Also, as a person of Chinese descent whose family experienced the Japanese Occupation during WW2 where our young men were driven off and executed en masse and our women raped, I am actually offended when people say people who would be considered “non-white” in the US cannot ever be the oppressors. Evil can manifest anywhere. It’s a product of being human, and not specific to a culture or continent of origin (i.e European). The whole thing is that the list of non-European imperialism and atrocities is LONG. Very long. It’s not all like how it’s disingenuous to say that in the US, white people suffer reverse racism at the hands of black people (wrong because as a whole white people have institutional power in the US). In many, many places, people considered non-white are very much in power and being the oppressors. I’m not at all proud of it myself of things like how the Chinese government has discriminated against their Muslim minorities, for example, or the human rights abuses in Tibet. It deserves to be called out, and it’s dangerous to perpetuate the idea that only “white” people have been oppressors because it conditions people to assume it doesn’t happen, or that when people of my skin colour do it, it’s somehow less severe. 

Bless